Gay Voices (in a literal, not metaphorical, sense)

[peroxidepirate]

This is something I've been pondering, on and off, for a while: most everybody recognizes the "gay male voice" as a cultural trope. But is there a female equivalent? More thoughts, some restaurant stories & a poll under the cut.

First of all, apologies to bisexual and trans readers for the fact that I talk about both gender and sexual orientation as dualities throughout this entry. I know it's not that simple. Truth is, it's not that simple for me. But I'm mostly addressing the perception of sexual orientation, and we're usually perceived as either Normal or Other at any given time. Also, I'm just pulling this out of my ass, so please nobody take this too seriously.

A couple of months ago, I was hanging out with some co-workers, eating my lunch, near the host stand. A customer came in, had a conversation with the host, and was duly led to a table. The host, who happens to be gay, came back and said to one of the waiters who was hanging out -- who's also gay -- "What do you think, is he on our team?"

The waiter replied, "Oh yeah. I wasn't sure at first, but then he was like," mimicking the guy's tone of voice, "'There might be four of us. There might be, mmm, seven,' and..."

The host laughed. "Yeah, that totally gave it away."

My response was, "It's no fair that there's no dead giveaway like that for girls." Straight tomboys tend to hate being mistaken for lesbians, and I was burned by that several times when I was younger. So I'm very reluctant to publicly assume any woman is gay even if I think she is.

Then, a few days later, I was in the kitchen with my back to the door, chopping carrots or something. Somebody behind me asked for a side of salsa. I thought it was the girl I've had a crush on for the past four months, but when I turned around, it was another waitress. Who I don't know very well, hadn't (at that point) had an actual conversation with, and doesn't actually sound very much like my crush. But I mistook one woman's voice for the other, and I never doubted that the second waitress was gay, too.

Then I started thinking about some other things, which I'm gonna throw out here in no particular pattern:

The "gay male voice" is a learned behavior, and it's sometimes really obvious and sometimes fairly subtle. I had guy friends in high school who didn't sound "gay" at all, but then picked up the voice once they came out in college. I know men whose sexual orientation isn't obvious unless they want it to be, who selectively use the "gay voice" as a gesture of solidarity with each other (as happened a bit in the first anecdote above). But I know others who "sound gay" all the time, because -- learned or not -- that's what feels natural to them now.

I'm a chef, and I don't interact with customers all that much. But I've had a series of second jobs on top of that, many of which are customer service based. And I realized a while ago that when I'm doing the customer service thing, my voice changes. It gets higher, brighter, and there's something else I can't explain that changes a little bit. I don't know why, except that I worked crap retail jobs for a long time when I was younger, and I guess I learned I get a better response from customers if I'm that particular kind of cheerful and "normal." But it doesn't feel like I'm being myself. If my coworkers at these jobs find out I'm gay, they're usually surprised. At my main job, I get shit done, first and foremost, and don't worry much about what people think of me; I'm just myself. I've never done the official "coming out" thing and I no longer have rainbows stuck all over my stuff, but my coworkers there are more likely to be surprised to learn that I have dated men.

I may have mentioned that I live with my best friend, who's straight. We've been friends and roommates for a very long time; we're more like sisters than anything else. People who know her first almost always understand that right away. People who know me first, excepting women I flirt with, almost always assume that she's my girlfriend. I don't know why this happens. I'm not *that* butch, and my roommie isn't particularly girly. Based on appearance, I wouldn't expect relative strangers to be able to peg either of our sexual orientation with particular accuracy, but they almost always do. So it must be something else.

All of which make me wonder if the voice is a signal for women, too, albeit less blatantly than it often is for men.

What do you think?

[Poll #1486811]


Also: my flist isn't that big, so feel free to link this post if you think your flist or any comms would be interested. I'm an amateur cultural anthropologist collecting data, folks! The more participation, the better.

Comments

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm...interesting. My experience with the gay male voice is much the same as yours. I've known guys that have adopted it after diving into the gay culture. Others who had always talked like that. And others who code-switch into it when with other gay men but lose the affectation in most other situations.

Personally, I don't think I ping gaydars very much, but lately I think I've been setting them off more. I also used to work in customer service, specifically on phones, and my "phone voice" was very different. Higher, smoother, more pleasant. I had a couple fellow queers at the office peg me as gay after having one conversation with me. I don't know if it's my voice that gave it away, though. My natural speaking voice tends to be a bit lower than most girls', and I'm more prone to casual, sometimes-obscene, slang and such. So it may not be my voice so much as my manner of speaking. Crude and forthright is a lesbian stereotype.

I don't think I've ever IDed any woman as gay based on her voice. Usually, I rely on more visual clues: Her clothing/hair falls into one of the lesbian "styles" (anywhere from diesal dyke to baby dyke to trendy dyke) or her jewelry or posture or whatever. The voice...I don't know.

The gay male voice is an exaggerated "effeminate" way of speaking. I don't know that there's an equivalent "masculine" speaking style that lesbians favor.

[peroxidepirate.livejournal.com]

"it may not be my voice so much as my manner of speaking. Crude and forthright is a lesbian stereotype."

Yeah, ok, I can see that. I hadn't considered that way of looking at it.

"I rely on more visual clues: Her clothing/hair falls into one of the lesbian "styles" (anywhere from diesal dyke to baby dyke to trendy dyke) or her jewelry or posture..."

Posture has a big impact, for sure. I think I'm not so good at reading clothing/hair/jewelry (excepting pride rings) accurately, tho -- that's been the cause of most of my embarrassing misidentifications.

"The gay male voice is an exaggerated "effeminate" way of speaking. I don't know that there's an equivalent "masculine" speaking style that lesbians favor."

I'd say there's definitely a masculine speaking style that's different from the way most women usually speak, but yeah, I don't know if lesbians are necessarily more likely to adopt it.

Thanks for commenting! And also thank you for pimping my poll. :)

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Course, on thinking on it, the gay male voice is also a manner of speaking as opposed to a tone of voice. So I think we're actually on the same page there. In which case, yeah, I can see how speaking habits can "give someone away" as being a lesbian.

Posture has a big impact, for sure. I think I'm not so good at reading clothing/hair/jewelry (excepting pride rings) accurately, tho -- that's been the cause of most of my embarrassing misidentifications.

I actually find the posture thing real interesting. Because if there's a girl I'm trying to flirt with, I'll adopt a more "lesbian" posture to try to set off her gaydar.

The clothing's hit or miss, admittedly. Often, it falls into the "wishful thinking" category for me.

Thanks for commenting! And also thank you for pimping my poll. :)

You're welcome. :)

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

My impression is that what you call the "gay male voice" isn't so much a sign of being gay, as a sign of participating in a specific cultural tradition. People who aren't exposed to that culture wouldn't adopt the voice.

Though having said that, I'd be interested to know if gay men in, say, Japan or Madagascar or Guyana speak in a distinctive way too...



As for women: my personal experience is that there isn't a distinctive lesbian voice, but there is a distinctive lesbian haircut. :-) Or at least there was when I was at Uni; things may have moved on since then.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

As for women: my personal experience is that there isn't a distinctive lesbian voice, but there is a distinctive lesbian haircut. :-)

The mullet? Are you talking about the mullet? Please say no.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

More like this:



although her top is too brightly-coloured for her to be a real lesbian.

I'm probably going to hell for saying that.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. That's definitely a lesbian haircut. And you're also right that her brightly-colored top gives her away as straight. Yeppers.

Now how much time did you spend browsing through online hairstyle galleries to find that? ;)

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Now how much time did you spend browsing through online hairstyle galleries to find that? ;)

I don't "browse online hairstyle galleries" at all, because it would violate the straight guy sexual code. :-p

On the other hand, if you do a Google Image search for "short spiky hair", this image comes on the first row of results.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

*does Google Image search*

Ah. So it does. How nifty. :)

[peroxidepirate.livejournal.com]

*wish* my hair would do that ever in life when I cut it short.

You think it's the color of the top? Not the style? Cuz... I have some stuff that color.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Well, I was focussing on the colour because that caught my eye - but yes, strappy off-the-shoulder cleavage-revealing tops aren't really something I associate with lesbians much either. At least, not while they're in public places where I'm likely to meet them...

[peroxidepirate.livejournal.com]

Right, I just got distracted by the discussion/picture about the distinctive lesbian haircut. Oops.

Responding to the rest of your comment...

"what you call the "gay male voice" isn't so much a sign of being gay, as a sign of participating in a specific cultural tradition... I'd be interested to know if gay men in, say, Japan or Madagascar or Guyana speak in a distinctive way too"

Yeah, it's definitely part of the English-speaking (or just American? Not even sure) gay culture, not something intrinsically tied to being a gay man. I'd expect other cultures that consider sexual orientation a definitive trait could also have some kind of (more or less accurate) indicator, but it could just as easily be something else. And I'm very sure that if there is a tone of voice or speech pattern in, say, Japanese (or even Spanish, which I hear all the time) that identifies a man as gay, I wouldn't recognize it.

Plus, plenty of cultures don't even have the categories of gay/straight/bi, so... yeah. Cultural studies-type post has cultural bias. Which I think is what I meant by saying that the whole voice thing is learned: it's not automatic; it comes (consciously or unconsciously) from being part of the culture that employs it.

[framefolly.livejournal.com]

Here by way of gabrielleabelle.

There is definitely a set of stereotypical cultural signifiers for gay men in traditional Chinese culture. They are supposed to lisp more; lick, purse, and otherwise move their lips more while not speaking and chewing; gaze people/things through the corners of their eyes or through lashes; flop their wrists more; and prefer to wear finer fabrics in brighter colors with more embroidery. And they are often devotees of Chinese opera (which traditionally grooms beautiful young men to play the female parts; several of the above mannerisms are diluted versions of stage gestures for femininity).

Some of these clearly overlap with contemporary American stereotypes, others less so...

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's definitely part of the English-speaking (or just American? Not even sure) gay culture

Definitely British too, dating back at least to the 60s and 70s, possibly earlier - I'm thinking of people like Frankie Howerd and John Inman.

[darkikyo7.livejournal.com]

well, as alesbian, I sometimes find it frustrating that while there is an easy way to identify gay men, there is no such way for women. In my experience, about 80% of men who use the gay voice as their regular speaking tone (as is they're not making fun of gays.) are in fact, gay. I have never, in the year I've been out (and was trying hard to see if there was an easy way to identify other lesbians)or the three years I've went to pride, been able to identify a lesbian by their voice. Clothing and haircuts choices can be means of finding lesbians but that will be deceptive at least 25-40% of the time. So no, I think there is not an equivalent.

[peroxidepirate.livejournal.com]

"I have never... been able to identify a lesbian by their voice."

Seems like that's the way it works for most people. Maybe what I'm noticing isn't so much a definitive thing as a subtle correlary -- or maybe I am reading body language, a lot of the time, without realizing it.

"Clothing and haircuts choices can be means of finding lesbians but that will be deceptive at least 25-40% of the time."

Yeah, I've found that, too. Frustrating at times.

Thanks for commenting. And I love your icon. :)

[next_to_normal]

Here from gabrielleabelle's LJ. I would say that my experience is similar to yours. I've definitely known guys who use the gay male voice in various ways, whereas up until this post, it never occurred to me that there was a "lesbian voice." Then again, I'm not a lesbian, so I don't have a vested interest in being able to pick them out. :)

It's also probably worth noting that I've known far more gay males than I have lesbians, so it's possible I just don't have a big enough sample to judge. But usually, if a woman does ping my gaydar, it's because of her appearance rather than voice.

[peroxidepirate.livejournal.com]

"Then again, I'm not a lesbian, so I don't have a vested interest in being able to pick them out."

Hrm, maybe I should have asked that in the poll. I'm sure it makes a difference. I know I have some straight friends who have pretty good gaydar, and others who are frighteningly oblivious.

"usually, if a woman does ping my gaydar, it's because of her appearance rather than voice."

I do think appearance is more likely to be accurate for this for women than it is for men -- it's just that it's still not that accurate.

"I've known far more gay males than I have lesbians"

Yes, but... are you sure about that? ;) Thanks for taking the poll & for commenting!

[next_to_normal]

Yes, but... are you sure about that? ;)

Hee! You know, my mom has a really close friend whom I have known my entire life, and I have NO idea what her sexuality is. She's unmarried and has never had a relationship with either gender that I'm aware of. Based on appearance, I'd say she could be a lesbian, but who knows if I'm right? And at this point, I'm kind of embarrassed to ask, because I've known the woman for 25 years, so I feel like I should know.

Of course, another factor of being straight is that, while a random woman might ping my gaydar, I'm not terribly concerned with finding out if I'm right, whereas you'd want to be pretty sure before you go flirting with her. :) So my lesbian gaydar could be way off, and I just don't know it...

[pennydrdful.livejournal.com]

Yeah... Unless a woman is overly butch or happens to have a combination of: short hair, white pumas, and probably some kind of sweat/sports pants; then I have no idea whether she's straight or not.