Torchwood?

[peroxidepirate]

Questions for anyone who's seen more than the first four episodes of Torchwood:

• Does it get better?
• When?
• If I skip ahead to that point, will I know what's going on?

(By the way, I have no problem with spoilers, so comment away, if you'd like.)

Yeah, so far, I'm not terribly impressed.

Four episodes in, and I'm sick of Gwen's relationship problems (just tell your boring boyfriend the truth, already!), I've picked out the members of the Five Man Band (more on this in a minute), and I'm still wondering when Jack is going to start acting like Jack.

I want to like the show. I like Gwen. I think her adjustment to the world of aliens and subterfuge is handled well. I thought Eve Myles was great in her first appearance on Doctor Who (she was a Victorian maid in the first season and had great chemistry with Rose, or anyway, I thought so), so it's neat that she landed a major role in Torchwood.

I've already mentioned that I love Jack Harkness -- his complex relationship with the Doctor; his jealousy over Rose (and omg, somebody point me to some Martha/Jack? Especially if it's plotty fic where they also save the day?); and yes, the way he flirts with literally everyone.

So, whatever else happens, that ought to be enough to make me like Torchwood.

But, well, that's all Jack as a sidekick on Doctor Who.

Jack as a leader, I like a good deal less. Or maybe it's the directing, or the writing; I'm not entirely sure. I'd heard that RTD wanted Torchwood to be a Joss Whedon-style ensemble drama, and I can see so clearly that the show is trying to go there. But seriously? So far, Jack's team doesn't listen to him, and then he leads by -- rather desperately -- yelling at them. He needs lessons from Buffy on how to have confidence that his people will listen to him the first time. He needs lessons from Mal on how to effectively yell at them when they don't. Because yes, Joss's shows are about the ensemble, but it's all held together by the person in charge. Torchwood uses the same format -- right down to the Captain's little chats with Simon Gwen at the end of the episode -- but so far, the captain just isn't strong enough to carry it.

Also, I think Jack should go ahead and proposition Gwen, so she can smack him and they can both move on. Because Jack Harkness is not Malcolm Reynolds, and shouldn't try to be, when he does his own thing so well.



On the Five Man Band, I think TV Tropes has it wrong. Here's my breakdown, at least at this point:

The Hero -- Jack
The Lancer -- Gwen (you can tell because she's the one the Hero talks things out with, after the dust settles)
The Big Guy -- Owen (a bit ironic, yeah, but he's the one who's most often just muscle)
The Smart Guy -- Tosh
The Chick -- Ianto (come on -- he makes the coffee and plays no real part in the action, except for the episode where he nearly ruins everything because he's been Blinded By Love -- that just screams "chick!")


Just for kicks, here's my Five Man Band assessment of Buffy (because I disagree with TV Tropes on that one, too):

The Hero -- Buffy
The Lancer -- Giles; later Willow (see above about talking things out; also, this is the character who sometimes tells the hero no)
The Big Guy -- Buffy's love interest (Angel, Riley, Spike, Satsu -- she explicitly names each of them as "our best weapon" at some point)
The Smart Guy -- Willow; later Giles or Dawn
The Chick -- Xander (he tries to be a Big Guy, early in the series, but by the end of S4, he's accepted his role as the heart of the gang)

Comments

[green-maia.livejournal.com]

Torchwood does get better - MUCH better. The first season is utterly dreadful. The second season is okay and has excellent character development. The third season, the mini-series Torchwood: Children of Earth is brilliant beyond brilliant (and deeply, deeply disturbing).

You shouldn't watch any Torchwood at all, IMHO, until you've finished the third season of Doctor Who.

After that...well, whether you want to sit through the bad stuff for the good stuff is up to you. I almost stopped watched in the first season...I had to force myself to keep watching episodes, I hated it so much and wanted to STOP. But I am very, very, VERY glad that I did watch it all. The characters are much richer if you see how they change and develop over time.

(I don't like Jack Harkness, though I do feel sorry for him, but all the other characters...most people start off hating Owen Harper because he is so hate-able, but his character arc is superb and by the middle of the second season I had come to love him. The character development on Torchwood is just awesome.)

OTOH, you could skip to the second season. Or, you could just watch COE. Up to you!

(If you don't mind spoilers, you should read selenak's essay on The Women in COE.)

[peroxidepirate.livejournal.com]

You shouldn't watch any Torchwood at all, IMHO, until you've finished the third season of Doctor Who.

That works out nicely, since I'm between seasons 3 and 4 of DW right now.

And thank you so much for commenting! If I know it does get better -- even if it's in the next season -- it's worth it to keep watching. (Just, slowly. And late at night, when my brain is half-shut off already.)

I'm glad to hear that Owen has a good arc, and I will check out that essay.

[kitty-ryan.livejournal.com]

The first five are the worst. The second season is much, much better from the getgo, and still improves towards the end, but god, the first five episodes of season one make me want to drive a fork into my eye. (Even the prettiness of Tosh kissing a girl does not make up for the appalling writing of Greeks Bearing Gifts. I'd watch the final two episodes of season one and pretend the rest of those episodes never existed.

And oh god, Children of Earth is terrifying,

[peroxidepirate.livejournal.com]

Ok, thanks for that. I'm through the first four and a quarter episodes now (my internet connection crapped out at 2 a.m., and the router is in my roommate's room, so I couldn't reset it), so I think I can hang on until it gets better.

(by the way, it makes me cringe a little to hear you talk about sticking things in your eyeball.)

[erimthar.livejournal.com]

I couldn't get into it either. I quit watching right after the "Ianto acts like an idiot, nearly gets everyone killed, threatens to kill his boss and then gets a free pass as if nothing happened" episode.

I didn't really like any of the characters in this context. I liked Jack more as a Companion on DH.

[peroxidepirate.livejournal.com]

LOL, that's the episode that made me post this! (Unless it happens more than once? Are you thinking of the ep with cyber girlfriend?) But I think I'm going to give it another go.